The beginning of vengeance…
Ok, so the title doesn’t really have any relationship to this review… but it was the only reference that didn’t sound conceited. (I was thinking of quoting Khan: “Although I am intrigued by your abilities, you are, quite honestly, inferior.”… but that would have been really cheeky.)
I have to admit, that the effects in this episode are light years better than what CBS Digital began with… The Enterprise looks markedly better. And the nacelle caps effect is getting much closer to the one seen in the original show. Kudos for improvements on what is a very difficult thing to emulate.
Now my continual list of good natured gripes.
1. Lenses.
The ship still looks stubby. Take a look at the side by side shots up at trekmovie.com. The original ship looks long and graceful. The new one looks stunted and compressed. This is due to the lenses being used. I can’t stress fully how important it is to use the lenses that would have been used filming the original 11 foot model. A virtual 15 or even 10 mm lens should be used on a CG model scaled to 11′2″. If the lens descriptions are accurate… you will be able to get the shots to look exactly the way they did in ‘66.
2. Color
Not only blue spill should be in play here. The comparison shots show very clearly that the type of grey that the enterprise is is definitely shifted toward the cool tones… AND the nacelle caps and Deflector dish are warm tones… I think the desaturization of the deflector dish in the new model is extremely detracting. I can think of no reasonable reason for this to be the case. In virtually every shot of the original, the deflector dish is a very colorful copper color. (except in the pilot version, which we saw in Mirror Mirror last week, where it should be darker brown) The CBS version is very very desaturated… and it makes the new shots look like they were shot on black and white stock. It doesn’t look good… and makes an otherwise good shot look very bad. Another color note is that the lighting on the ship has always naturally been including different color temperatures. The windows are almost pink, because of the warm temperature of the dimmer lights used on the internal lighting. These shots look better as more saturated… because they cut with the interiors better and feel more integral to the show. The various running lights also had definite different colors going on… but all of them seem just white now.
3. Lighting
It’s good that they’ve started using a hotter key light. (unfortunately they’re lighting it like Next Generation and voyager, with the key light behind the model pointed toward the camera) but they are using a soft even fill, which makes the shots look muddy. I realize this is an effort to mimic more “realistic” lighting that you might theoretically have in space, but to be frank, it just looks amateurish. In my opinion, you need to mimic the lighting from the show, which used several modeling kick lights to show the contours of the ship… (and not be afraid of darker shadows to show depth) a kick light placed at a lower angle and about 100 degrees off from the key at about 40 percent of the strength would do nicely to bring out contour and avoid the flat, dull fill lighting currently being used. The original lighting was done very carefully to make the ship look good. And it wasn’t done to make it look like NASA shots.
One last thing… I think the weathering of the Botany Bay was a bit excessive, and “video gamey”… I know it looks like the original model did, (I’ve seen those photos as well) but the trick here is not to make it look like the model did in real life… it’s to make the model look like it did in the show… and the amount of light they needed to use necessitated that much weathering just to show up… so without the limits of hot lights, less weathering is needed for the needed final effect. The excessive weathering ruins the scale for me. And it’s all well and good to have included modeled “real NASA” hardware, apparently in the docking hatch in the CG model, but seriously… the amount of time spent on doing something that will not be seen is wasted, when it could be used for testing the look of lighting. Priorities need to be established.
That’s really all I can think to bring up now. It’s good to see they’re improving. But I’m sure everyone is as sick of me bringing up the same old things over and over again as I am sick of me doing it. lol
Now, I’m gonna go catch up on my Milton.
November 21st, 2006 at 11:10 am
I like that they added subtle drifting/rotation to the Botany Bay. I don’t agree with the criticism that the Botany Bay did not look enough like the original. The Catch-22 here is that if you are too respectful of the original, you will produce an exact replica of the episode (In which case, why bother? Just show us the original Ep), but if you are not respectful enough you break with the aesthetic of the original. The Botany Bay looked more like a ship here than a dinky model - that is an improvement in my book.
They seem to be getting a bit more courageous with shots of the Enterprise. I would like to see more non-canonical angles and passes. The great thing about the motion picture was that they filmed the model in such a way that you got the sense that the ship was actually a massive object - yeah, they overdid it with the fisheye lens in a few shots (they should have spiffed for a bigger model) and it took a 1/2 for the ship to get out of spacedock, but the ship acutally seemed big - and it was lit like it was actually in space. The Dochterman Doomsday short is cool in that it gives the viewer some of those angles and that sort of lighting.
The Enterprise still does not look right. The nacelle caps still look off to me. If this is as good as it gets, I think it would look more realistic take the original model out of the Smithsonian and film it using the good old-fashioned camera techniques that made Star Wars look so impressive. The actual model with a few CGI embellishments would look much better than a video game image. The CGI model that was done for the director’s cut of the motion picture (Dochterman again, right?) looked beautiful - why can’t they make the TV model look that good? Is it the time rush or is there something about the look of the original model that just lacks verisimilitude?
November 21st, 2006 at 11:38 am
“I have to admit, that the effects in this episode are light years better than what CBS Digital began with…”
I agree Daren. Yet it is important that a professional, critical eye continue to offer ways for CBS Digital to keep getting better. So if you’ve got the “gripes” — then gripe. If it can possibly help to make TREK better then I’m all for it.
I personally was very pleased to see both improvement in the CGI and creativity in new camera angles. Cutting the Botany Bay loose was very dramatic (an Enterprise maneuvering thruster may account for the BB tumble?)
November 22nd, 2006 at 6:04 am
I was mostly happy with the results this week, the lack of a visible tractor beam on the Botany Bay my only verbal complaint. I agree with Daren that the lighting and lenses for the virtual cameras are not TOS like. While the texturing and shading of the model is better (nacelle caps, etc.) it still needs some kind of diffusion map to make it all come together.
If they were going for a more realistic approach, say that and let the CG models reflect that, i.e., self illumination, more weathering, perhaps modifying the Enterprise to be more in the design lineage of “Enterprise” and TNG with plasma in the nacelle caps, blue lighting in the nacelles, modifications to make the hanger deck “fit” into the secondary hull, etc.
It seems to me, because of the time crunch they have imposed, CBS has put themselves in the SAME position as when the original series was being produced. They are obviously doing an episode a week, perhaps to make it so they can feel like Star Trek is in production again. The problem with that mindset is it forces them to make middling choices regarding the direction the FX should take. It certainly seems as if the decision to do this entire project was made during some kind “regime change” at Viacom, with the new regime liking Star Trek and wanting to do something fitting for the 40th anniversary. Everything just seems rushed and little thought is put into how to make it look like TOS AND be fresh AND be satisfying to everyone.
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:11 am
Agreed, and keep on nitpicking. I think the problem with Trek fans is for years they have accepted B movie budgets and second citizen (in the Sci-Fi - echalon) status. I get into arguements with fans who consistantly tell me to shut up and be happy with what we have. These are the same fans who told me that they may not have liked the next Gen era shows (except DS9 which was pretty good) or Enterprise but it was Star Trek so it needed to be whole-heartedly supported. No if something is good and you enjoy it support it and praise the chefs if not send it back to the kitchen. If I am not much mistaken the only Trek film to recieve a big hollywood budget was TMP and I feel visually is has more of a real majestic feel to it than any other film in the franchise. In fact I still find that Douglass Trumbull’s effects are the most realistic space ship effects of any Sci-film. I was always pissed that ILM saw fit to butcher his beautiful pearlsheen paint job with their star wars flat grays. In any case I love your efforts on the Special Edition( especially the sceen where Kirk says “Transmit now” and you see the VGER weapon fizz out before striking the bow of the ship) Beautiful shot. You also worked on another of my favorite and incredibly underappreciated films, Exorcist III .
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:50 am
Nothing wrong with being nitpicky, but I just hope Daren realizes that even if he were in charge of these visuals there would be people out there doing the same thing to him — nitpicking.
As I said over at Trekmovie, there just seems to be an imbalance (in the warp engines
) between constructive criticism and too much. And as I said over there…it’s starting to border on sour grapes. I love Daren’s work. So, no criticism there. But, he’s not working on a tight deadline every day either. He’s had all kinds of time to polish up his Enterprise for example…and we don’t know how that ship would render anyway in complex animated scenes. Even Daren’s still images of the Enterprise are better than the animation demos I’ve seen that he did. But, I want to reiterate that I am huge fan of Daren’s work…he’s an awesome talent…I just wish he could be a LITTLE more positive.
TTM
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:53 am
Oh, I need to add: I am not one of those “take it or leave it” or “take anything” fans. I just understand that there are some people who will NEVER be satisfied and even Daren wouldn’t be able to meet everyone’s expectations.
I’ve been a Trek fan since I was oh…five…and I am 43 now. So, believe me…I know how Trek fans are. LOL!!!!
November 22nd, 2006 at 10:06 am
There is a lot of talk about Daren nit-picking, esp over at Trekmovie.com, seriously, I think the guy is pointing out what he perceives as technical shortcomings in the shots, and a potential better approach for it, and as I read it.. he’s doing it with a generally pretty good attitude…
CBS digital’s work is improving, and maybe some of Daren’s technical feedback is helping, along with the fans comments as well.
Doug
November 22nd, 2006 at 10:26 am
I agree TrekMaster. I am 46, and remember when my dad turned on “The Mantrap” in 1966, so I REALLY know how Trek fans are
! I have a few friends who think ANY remastering of TOS beyond a cleanup is out of sight.
Yes, Daren has had time to develop his Enterprise model. That is only because he had this idea at the wrong time. I believe he did his presentation for Paramount several years after Digital Stream did theirs. I think that particular “regime” was shortsighted and did not see the value in TOS.
Now that I am learning 3D graphics, let me say that all of Daren’s criticisms are constructive. The stated goal at CBS digital was to get as close to the look and feel of TOS as possible but to bring it up to date; without the proper virtual lighting and lenses, they fall short. Also, CBS isn’t using anything better than Daren. They use Maya, Daren uses Lightwave. Both are capable of outputting broadcast quality work.
Let me just say this. If Daren was in charge, (no offense to Mike Okuda and Dave Rossi) had the same access to the original TOS miniature that he did with the refit Enterprise miniature for TMP, I don’t think we would be having these conversations.
November 22nd, 2006 at 11:00 am
I fully agree that if I were in charge, there would be just as much, if not more, nitpicking. And I’m fully open to it… as I have been from the start of me putting my work up for people to see. I take all constructive criticism cheerfully, and if I find it reasoned and sound, I take it. I am constantly re-thinking and revising my work… which might be considered a luxury in some cases… and I agree that I am not under a time constraint right now… but I was when I was readying the proposal I did have a self imposed deadline of completing the first quarter of the episode in 3 weeks. This included totally rebuilding the model from the early proposal (seen in the first attempt movie) and creating the constellation model and rigging. This was done all by myself.
I think it would be a bit of a luxury to have 20 staff people around to do the work… and just have the responsibility of approving shots. 
I really want to be upbeat about this… cause I think the project is a good idea. It’s just getting harder and harder to be positive when things I see as easy corrections remain untouched.
LL&P
Daren
November 22nd, 2006 at 2:12 pm
Damn straight. I got heat at Trekmovie cause I dared to suggest that while i loved the effects in the episode and praised the improvements since the inception of the whole remastering thing I would like to see what Daren had to say and that i would like to see him get a shot at a couple of these episodes. Hell I’d love to see ILM do some footage too and the folks that do Galactic’s FX. How radical, I’m a regular Abbie Hoffman. Many of my brother Trekkies act so jingoistic about this thing. It’s like they are afraid Paramount is going to come in and take this away from us. Yes I’m happy with it and yes there are things I would like to see tweeked and improved, nothing major just a little tweek here and there. Also I think we deserve it to be done right when the eventuality comes to shell out money for the re-re-remastered dvd collection. hell most of us have shelled out big bucks to purchase the video collection then all thirtysomething of the dvd collection.
November 22nd, 2006 at 3:37 pm
By the way… Digital Stream never did pitch their idea to the studio… My pitch was the only one presented to the studio… but I did pitch it twice… once with the compilation reel, and once with the Doomsday Machine.
Just clearing things up. lol
November 22nd, 2006 at 4:09 pm
That is interesting to know Daren. On their old Website Digital Stream claimed they made some kind of pitch to someone in charge at Paramount. If they didn’t, then Paramount really missed the boat in rejecting your work, but it probably worked in your favor later when getting the TMP gig if you made your pitch before that; in other words someone remembered “that artist with the original Trek thingee” and got a hold of you.
Steve
November 22nd, 2006 at 7:41 pm
“I agree TrekMaster. I am 46, and remember when my dad turned on “The Mantrap” in 1966, so I REALLY know how Trek fans are ! I have a few friends who think ANY remastering of TOS beyond a cleanup is out of sight.”
Man, you have a great memory! LOL I can remember some of the third season episodes in their original run but that’s as far back as my RAM will take me. LOL
“Let me just say this. If Daren was in charge, (no offense to Mike Okuda and Dave Rossi) had the same access to the original TOS miniature that he did with the refit Enterprise miniature for TMP, I don’t think we would be having these conversations.”
Well, maybe not…maybe so.
But that’s a moot point considering the original shooting model has been vandalized over the years. So, even if he did have access to it, it wouldn’t be very good reference material (except for measurements/proportions) at this point. I tell you, Greg Jein needs to be brought in to restore the Enterprise to her former glory.
Daren says:
“This included totally rebuilding the model from the early proposal (seen in the first attempt movie) and creating the constellation model and rigging. This was done all by myself. I think it would be a bit of a luxury to have 20 staff people around to do the work… and just have the responsibility of approving shots.”
Yep, and you did a damned good job considering it was just you. I am right there with you on critiquing the things that keep going unfixed. I think you played a big role in finally getting those nacelle caps looking somewhat decent.
Oh…am I the only one that was not terribly impressed with Digital Stream’s demo? LOL I hated their Doomsday Machine reimagining.
Picardsucks says:
“I got heat at Trekmovie cause I dared to suggest that while i loved the effects in the episode and praised the improvements since the inception of the whole remastering thing I would like to see what Daren had to say and that i would like to see him get a shot at a couple of these episodes. Hell I’d love to see ILM do some footage too and the folks that do Galactic’s FX. How radical, I’m a regular Abbie Hoffman.”
Well, I don’t think you should be flamed for your suggestion, but I do think having more than one effects house do the visuals would be a mistake. It’s difficult enough keeping a consistent look just with one team working on this. But with two or more? You think you are seeing inconsistency now…LOL!!! I think the team at CBS Digital is just fine…with one exception: Daren should be on that team…and it’s a travesty that he isn’t.
TMM
November 22nd, 2006 at 10:07 pm
Well, I don’t know if it’s a travesty that I’m not on the team… I think there are already too many chefs on that project as it is… and I don’t think I’d be fulfilled being another of the talented grunts doing the shots… that’s how it goes.
November 23rd, 2006 at 10:41 am
Heh…you did say it looked like they needed a director…;-)
I think you could fit the bill for that! LOL
November 25th, 2006 at 10:14 pm
You are right about the paint coat.
I can assure you,that the original paint coat was grey. A fairly light grey. But not too light. With a touch of greenish blue. Just a touch. Maybe more blue than green.
:D
The original model may have been painted over. So you can’t tell it’s original color by going to the Smithsonian. But some sloppy paint splatters from the original paint still exist today!
November 25th, 2006 at 10:18 pm
Btw, I really find your knowledge of the lenses interesting. Very interesting bit of trivia you know!
I agree about the lighting. I think they really can improve it by adding the cast off blue reflected light, and adding the lighting as you mentioned. I take you you too have found the photos of the Enterprise being filmed with all the lights visible in the photo so you can see where they were placed.
But I bet CBS Digital doesn’t.
Too bad. Really.