Comments on: …For what it’s worth… here’s my take on it. DOOMSDAY ENHANCED! (updated new mirrors) http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76 Mon, 06 Sep 2010 09:12:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: New and Improved Star Trek? « The Bob Files http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-2613 Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:51:36 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-2613 [...] Of course, if the episodes can be re-imagined, there’s no reason they can’t be re-re-imagined.  There are a number of fans out there these days working wonders on the old episodes.  CBS probably got the idea of cleaning up the special effects by a guy who made his own updates of The Doomsday Machine episode for fun.  Others are making their own “fourth season” episodes on the Enterprise or one of her sister ships in the Federation.  And if none of these options pans out to get what I think is the perfect version of Star Trek, I suppose I could always write a letter to CBS.  Letter writing worked pretty well back in the day. [...] […] Of course, if the episodes can be re-imagined, there’s no reason they can’t be re-re-imagined.  There are a number of fans out there these days working wonders on the old episodes.  CBS probably got the idea of cleaning up the special effects by a guy who made his own updates of The Doomsday Machine episode for fun.  Others are making their own “fourth season” episodes on the Enterprise or one of her sister ships in the Federation.  And if none of these options pans out to get what I think is the perfect version of Star Trek, I suppose I could always write a letter to CBS.  Letter writing worked pretty well back in the day. […]

]]> by: windsorbear http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-423 Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:35:45 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-423 Steve, I could sit here and debate effect for effect, but I'm not. Everyone is going to have their own opinions about the realism of CBS/D's CGI effects, and what they want from CBS/D. I personally would like to see "enhancement"; use CGI to clean up the existing special effects, and ONLY replace them with CGI WHERE NECESSARY, . The original Enterprise was a beautiful model, especially after the final ehancements. Some of the shots shown in the second and third seasons could stand on their own with no problem, and definately do not need to be replaced. But again, it is going to be a matter of personal preference for each viewer. As far as Doomsday goes, I agree that a lot CGI replacement was needed; especially for shots of the Constellation. In my own personal opinion, reflecting my own personal taste, the realism of Daren's Constellation beat the realism of CBS/D's Constellation. For whatever reason, I still prefer the original doomsday machine over both CGI representations. I guess the original was so "cheap" that it made it look more alien while the CGI representations look more humanized. As for the Enterprise, I agree that CBS/D is getting better and better... but Daren's Enterprise looks more like a real "cleaned-up" and "enhanced" 11 ft. model being filmed, and that's what impresses me. I don't want the Enterprise looking like a real starship in real-time space in the real universe. I want it to look like a filmed model from a 1960's TV show, so that it does not clash with the rest of the show. In both Doomsday machine and Amok Time, we are treated with 60's sets, 60's clothes, 60's hair styles, and the sudden transition to modern techno-styled CGI graphic exterior shots and fighting arenas on top of mountains is just too intrusive. If CGI must be used, it should be used so that the viewers do NOT notice that CGI is being used at all. So far, CBS/D's episodes are "interesting" to watch, but for me, they will be a one time watch only, and then I will return to the originals... much the same way that I returned to vinyl years ago after finding CD's to be to be too cold and intrusive. But this is just my own personal opinions and preferences. Steve, I could sit here and debate effect for effect, but I’m not. Everyone is going to have their own opinions about the realism of CBS/D’s CGI effects, and what they want from CBS/D. I personally would like to see “enhancement”; use CGI to clean up the existing special effects, and ONLY replace them with CGI WHERE NECESSARY, . The original Enterprise was a beautiful model, especially after the final ehancements. Some of the shots shown in the second and third seasons could stand on their own with no problem, and definately do not need to be replaced. But again, it is going to be a matter of personal preference for each viewer. As far as Doomsday goes, I agree that a lot CGI replacement was needed; especially for shots of the Constellation. In my own personal opinion, reflecting my own personal taste, the realism of Daren’s Constellation beat the realism of CBS/D’s Constellation. For whatever reason, I still prefer the original doomsday machine over both CGI representations. I guess the original was so “cheap” that it made it look more alien while the CGI representations look more humanized. As for the Enterprise, I agree that CBS/D is getting better and better… but Daren’s Enterprise looks more like a real “cleaned-up” and “enhanced” 11 ft. model being filmed, and that’s what impresses me. I don’t want the Enterprise looking like a real starship in real-time space in the real universe. I want it to look like a filmed model from a 1960’s TV show, so that it does not clash with the rest of the show. In both Doomsday machine and Amok Time, we are treated with 60’s sets, 60’s clothes, 60’s hair styles, and the sudden transition to modern techno-styled CGI graphic exterior shots and fighting arenas on top of mountains is just too intrusive. If CGI must be used, it should be used so that the viewers do NOT notice that CGI is being used at all. So far, CBS/D’s episodes are “interesting” to watch, but for me, they will be a one time watch only, and then I will return to the originals… much the same way that I returned to vinyl years ago after finding CD’s to be to be too cold and intrusive. But this is just my own personal opinions and preferences.

]]> by: plazaarch http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-388 Sun, 25 Feb 2007 02:13:50 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-388 Daren--- I really loved your Doomsday-Enhanced. The thing I absolutely like the best is that once the Constellation is moving again, you treat it like a STARSHIP (with a lot of damage) instead of an AMT model kit that ran into a box of matches. Way better than the way CBS-D treated the old girl. Totally awesome, dude. Pat Daren—
I really loved your Doomsday-Enhanced. The thing I absolutely like the best is that once the Constellation is moving again, you treat it like a STARSHIP (with a lot of damage) instead of an AMT model kit that ran into a box of matches. Way better than the way CBS-D treated the old girl.

Totally awesome, dude.

Pat

]]> by: Sunking69 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-382 Thu, 22 Feb 2007 01:57:13 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-382 Hi Daren- Finally have a chance to post a message. Congrates on the completion of your version of The Doomsday Machine effects! It made for a very exciting weekend of viewing both yours and the CBS version. They both had their positves! Your Enterprise was very nicely rendered and I like both your take and CBS's take to make it more "real" verses yours that still looked very real, but had that 60's vide. I have a quesiton for you; what was your source for dimensional info to build the Enterprise? I am looking for accurate detail drawings. I've seen those by Alan Sinclair which are really good. But I'm curious if there's a source with dimensions right off the 11 foot model! Thanks for any help. And I am really hoping you get working on the Hi-Def Star Trek The Motion Picture re-renders! Thanks again! Nelson Hi Daren-

Finally have a chance to post a message. Congrates on the completion of your version of The Doomsday Machine effects! It made for a very exciting weekend of viewing both yours and the CBS version. They both had their positves!

Your Enterprise was very nicely rendered and I like both your take and CBS’s take to make it more “real” verses yours that still looked very real, but had that 60’s vide.

I have a quesiton for you; what was your source for dimensional info to build the Enterprise? I am looking for accurate detail drawings. I’ve seen those by Alan Sinclair which are really good. But I’m curious if there’s a source with dimensions right off the 11 foot model! Thanks for any help.

And I am really hoping you get working on the Hi-Def Star Trek The Motion Picture re-renders!

Thanks again! Nelson

]]> by: DarenDoc http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-381 Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:05:41 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-381 Sorry, Doc... I'm still backlogged on replying to email... so I'll answer you here. No... that wasn't the one. Sorry... that was just a bonafide rendering error in my shot. :) That one wasn't intentional. Sorry, Doc…

I’m still backlogged on replying to email… so I’ll answer you here.

No… that wasn’t the one. Sorry… that was just a bonafide rendering error in my shot. :) That one wasn’t intentional.

]]> by: emhdoc http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-380 Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:55:51 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-380 I posted this over at Trekmovie.com and even in an email to DarrenDoc. I didn't get a reply; so, either I am wrong or I just haven't been answered yet. I will post here in hope of a reply. Over at Trekmovie.com, DarrenDoc wanted us to find the mistake purposely put into the effects. I didn't see anyone find it and be directly answered if it is the mistake in question. Here is my take as posted at Trekmovie.com. "Is the mistake in the shot after the first attack of the Doomsday Machine where the Enterprise flies by the camera and the window (I am guessing it is a window, looks like a white square) on the rear side of the saucer section disappears? This scene is about 5 minutes and 55 seconds into the wmf file." I posted this over at Trekmovie.com and even in an email to DarrenDoc. I didn’t get a reply; so, either I am wrong or I just haven’t been answered yet. I will post here in hope of a reply. Over at Trekmovie.com, DarrenDoc wanted us to find the mistake purposely put into the effects. I didn’t see anyone find it and be directly answered if it is the mistake in question. Here is my take as posted at Trekmovie.com.

“Is the mistake in the shot after the first attack of the Doomsday Machine where the Enterprise flies by the camera and the window (I am guessing it is a window, looks like a white square) on the rear side of the saucer section disappears? This scene is about 5 minutes and 55 seconds into the wmf file.”

]]> by: spsmyth http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-379 Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:32:30 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-379 windsorbear, I think the CBS/D model holds up very well to scrutiny and, except for the overall lighting, looks very good compared to what it looked like early on and compared Daren's. If you watched "Amok Time" this week, they had an extremely CLOSE beauty pass from left to right, fore and aft, of the Enterprise that looked really, really good. The texture and diffussion maps are much better and the nacelles are approaching perfection. Again, the lighting is really the only thing lacking in these scenes. I can forgive the dull color of the defelctor array. As to “enhancement” over “re-creation” I would have to go with my contract law teacher and give the lawerly argument "it depends." In "The Doomsday Machine" I would say that in 90% of the episode one would have to go with "re-creation" since the original planet killer model doesn't exist for reference and we only have what is on film you can, like Daren, get close, or like CBS just go for it and do it with the same intent as the original, while only echoing the original's look. I really like what they did at CBS, especially in the debris field of L-374 III at the beginning, the space battle, and in the shuttlecraft hanger. Please note that they went with a different angle for the shuttle and had the ship start taking off BEFORE the doors fully opened for fear that they may close before Decker could complete the launch. The fact that CBS "went for it" instead of playing it safe is a good thing. It certainly shows in "Amok Time" which only has 5 remastered shots. They are all excellent. Steve windsorbear, I think the CBS/D model holds up very well to scrutiny and, except for the overall lighting, looks very good compared to what it looked like early on and compared Daren’s. If you watched “Amok Time” this week, they had an extremely CLOSE beauty pass from left to right, fore and aft, of the Enterprise that looked really, really good. The texture and diffussion maps are much better and the nacelles are approaching perfection. Again, the lighting is really the only thing lacking in these scenes. I can forgive the dull color of the defelctor array.

As to “enhancement” over “re-creation” I would have to go with my contract law teacher and give the lawerly argument “it depends.” In “The Doomsday Machine” I would say that in 90% of the episode one would have to go with “re-creation” since the original planet killer model doesn’t exist for reference and we only have what is on film you can, like Daren, get close, or like CBS just go for it and do it with the same intent as the original, while only echoing the original’s look. I really like what they did at CBS, especially in the debris field of L-374 III at the beginning, the space battle, and in the shuttlecraft hanger. Please note that they went with a different angle for the shuttle and had the ship start taking off BEFORE the doors fully opened for fear that they may close before Decker could complete the launch.

The fact that CBS “went for it” instead of playing it safe is a good thing. It certainly shows in “Amok Time” which only has 5 remastered shots. They are all excellent.

Steve

]]> by: windsorbear http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-378 Sat, 17 Feb 2007 03:36:14 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-378 Well, I've now seen both Darren's version, and CBS/Paramount's version, and I can honestly say that Darren's version of the exterior ship shots is superior. While CBS/Paramount has come a long way, their Enterprise still looks like something out of a graphic novel... it does not look real. It looks like very good animation, but it does not look real. Darren's version looks like there is an actual model being filmed, and it gives it a sense of depth and reality that CBS/Paramount can only hope for. Great job Darren. Would love to see what you could do with "The Ultimate Computer" and "The Tholian Web". With the latter, I know you would be able to enhance the already great original visual effects. My fear is that CBS/Paramount will attempt to completely redo them. I much prefer "enhancement" over "re-creation." Well, I’ve now seen both Darren’s version, and CBS/Paramount’s version, and I can honestly say that Darren’s version of the exterior ship shots is superior. While CBS/Paramount has come a long way, their Enterprise still looks like something out of a graphic novel… it does not look real. It looks like very good animation, but it does not look real. Darren’s version looks like there is an actual model being filmed, and it gives it a sense of depth and reality that CBS/Paramount can only hope for. Great job Darren. Would love to see what you could do with “The Ultimate Computer” and “The Tholian Web”. With the latter, I know you would be able to enhance the already great original visual effects. My fear is that CBS/Paramount will attempt to completely redo them. I much prefer “enhancement” over “re-creation.”

]]> by: DarenDoc http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-376 Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:17:04 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-376 Good catch, MJ! :) My apologies to Mr. Catron... I think it was a combination of long hours and distractions... It will be fixed if I ever do this again... (which I doubt... but at least it will be an easy way to tell which version you're looking at. :)) Good catch, MJ! :) My apologies to Mr. Catron… I think it was a combination of long hours and distractions… It will be fixed if I ever do this again… (which I doubt… but at least it will be an easy way to tell which version you’re looking at. :) )

]]> by: MJPollard http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-375 Mon, 12 Feb 2007 07:39:03 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=76#comment-375 Oops! A minor but glaring error in the closing credits. You listed John Winston (who plays Transporter Chief Kyle) twice, once as Kyle and once as "Montgomery." The latter, according to the original credits, was played by Jerry Catron. Methinks you either worked very late that night, or had other things on your mind when you redid the end credits (or both). :) Oops! A minor but glaring error in the closing credits. You listed John Winston (who plays Transporter Chief Kyle) twice, once as Kyle and once as “Montgomery.” The latter, according to the original credits, was played by Jerry Catron. Methinks you either worked very late that night, or had other things on your mind when you redid the end credits (or both). :)

]]>