Comments on: The beginning of vengeance… http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52 Mon, 06 Sep 2010 08:50:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: tom http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-123 Sun, 26 Nov 2006 05:18:23 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-123 Btw, I really find your knowledge of the lenses interesting. Very interesting bit of trivia you know! I agree about the lighting. I think they really can improve it by adding the cast off blue reflected light, and adding the lighting as you mentioned. I take you you too have found the photos of the Enterprise being filmed with all the lights visible in the photo so you can see where they were placed. But I bet CBS Digital doesn't. Too bad. Really. Btw, I really find your knowledge of the lenses interesting. Very interesting bit of trivia you know!

I agree about the lighting. I think they really can improve it by adding the cast off blue reflected light, and adding the lighting as you mentioned. I take you you too have found the photos of the Enterprise being filmed with all the lights visible in the photo so you can see where they were placed.

But I bet CBS Digital doesn’t.

Too bad. Really.

]]> by: tom http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-122 Sun, 26 Nov 2006 05:14:39 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-122 You are right about the paint coat. I can assure you,that the original paint coat was grey. A fairly light grey. But not too light. With a touch of greenish blue. Just a touch. Maybe more blue than green. :D The original model may have been painted over. So you can't tell it's original color by going to the Smithsonian. But some sloppy paint splatters from the original paint still exist today! You are right about the paint coat.

I can assure you,that the original paint coat was grey. A fairly light grey. But not too light. With a touch of greenish blue. Just a touch. Maybe more blue than green.

:D

The original model may have been painted over. So you can’t tell it’s original color by going to the Smithsonian. But some sloppy paint splatters from the original paint still exist today!

]]> by: THETrekMaster http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-121 Thu, 23 Nov 2006 17:41:06 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-121 Heh...you did say it looked like they needed a director...;-) I think you could fit the bill for that! LOL Heh…you did say it looked like they needed a director…;-)
I think you could fit the bill for that! LOL

]]> by: DarenDoc http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-120 Thu, 23 Nov 2006 05:07:55 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-120 Well, I don't know if it's a travesty that I'm not on the team... I think there are already too many chefs on that project as it is... and I don't think I'd be fulfilled being another of the talented grunts doing the shots... that's how it goes. Well, I don’t know if it’s a travesty that I’m not on the team… I think there are already too many chefs on that project as it is… and I don’t think I’d be fulfilled being another of the talented grunts doing the shots… that’s how it goes.

]]> by: THETrekMaster http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-119 Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:41:21 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-119 "I agree TrekMaster. I am 46, and remember when my dad turned on “The Mantrap” in 1966, so I REALLY know how Trek fans are ! I have a few friends who think ANY remastering of TOS beyond a cleanup is out of sight." Man, you have a great memory! LOL I can remember some of the third season episodes in their original run but that's as far back as my RAM will take me. LOL "Let me just say this. If Daren was in charge, (no offense to Mike Okuda and Dave Rossi) had the same access to the original TOS miniature that he did with the refit Enterprise miniature for TMP, I don’t think we would be having these conversations." Well, maybe not...maybe so. But that's a moot point considering the original shooting model has been vandalized over the years. So, even if he did have access to it, it wouldn't be very good reference material (except for measurements/proportions) at this point. I tell you, Greg Jein needs to be brought in to restore the Enterprise to her former glory. Daren says: "This included totally rebuilding the model from the early proposal (seen in the first attempt movie) and creating the constellation model and rigging. This was done all by myself. I think it would be a bit of a luxury to have 20 staff people around to do the work… and just have the responsibility of approving shots." Yep, and you did a damned good job considering it was just you. I am right there with you on critiquing the things that keep going unfixed. I think you played a big role in finally getting those nacelle caps looking somewhat decent. Oh...am I the only one that was not terribly impressed with Digital Stream's demo? LOL I hated their Doomsday Machine reimagining. Picardsucks says: "I got heat at Trekmovie cause I dared to suggest that while i loved the effects in the episode and praised the improvements since the inception of the whole remastering thing I would like to see what Daren had to say and that i would like to see him get a shot at a couple of these episodes. Hell I’d love to see ILM do some footage too and the folks that do Galactic’s FX. How radical, I’m a regular Abbie Hoffman." Well, I don't think you should be flamed for your suggestion, but I do think having more than one effects house do the visuals would be a mistake. It's difficult enough keeping a consistent look just with one team working on this. But with two or more? You think you are seeing inconsistency now...LOL!!! I think the team at CBS Digital is just fine...with one exception: Daren should be on that team...and it's a travesty that he isn't. TMM “I agree TrekMaster. I am 46, and remember when my dad turned on “The Mantrap” in 1966, so I REALLY know how Trek fans are ! I have a few friends who think ANY remastering of TOS beyond a cleanup is out of sight.”

Man, you have a great memory! LOL I can remember some of the third season episodes in their original run but that’s as far back as my RAM will take me. LOL

“Let me just say this. If Daren was in charge, (no offense to Mike Okuda and Dave Rossi) had the same access to the original TOS miniature that he did with the refit Enterprise miniature for TMP, I don’t think we would be having these conversations.”

Well, maybe not…maybe so.

But that’s a moot point considering the original shooting model has been vandalized over the years. So, even if he did have access to it, it wouldn’t be very good reference material (except for measurements/proportions) at this point. I tell you, Greg Jein needs to be brought in to restore the Enterprise to her former glory.

Daren says:

“This included totally rebuilding the model from the early proposal (seen in the first attempt movie) and creating the constellation model and rigging. This was done all by myself. I think it would be a bit of a luxury to have 20 staff people around to do the work… and just have the responsibility of approving shots.”

Yep, and you did a damned good job considering it was just you. I am right there with you on critiquing the things that keep going unfixed. I think you played a big role in finally getting those nacelle caps looking somewhat decent.

Oh…am I the only one that was not terribly impressed with Digital Stream’s demo? LOL I hated their Doomsday Machine reimagining.

Picardsucks says:

“I got heat at Trekmovie cause I dared to suggest that while i loved the effects in the episode and praised the improvements since the inception of the whole remastering thing I would like to see what Daren had to say and that i would like to see him get a shot at a couple of these episodes. Hell I’d love to see ILM do some footage too and the folks that do Galactic’s FX. How radical, I’m a regular Abbie Hoffman.”

Well, I don’t think you should be flamed for your suggestion, but I do think having more than one effects house do the visuals would be a mistake. It’s difficult enough keeping a consistent look just with one team working on this. But with two or more? You think you are seeing inconsistency now…LOL!!! I think the team at CBS Digital is just fine…with one exception: Daren should be on that team…and it’s a travesty that he isn’t.

TMM

]]> by: spsmyth http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-118 Wed, 22 Nov 2006 23:09:59 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-118 That is interesting to know Daren. On their old Website Digital Stream claimed they made some kind of pitch to someone in charge at Paramount. If they didn't, then Paramount really missed the boat in rejecting your work, but it probably worked in your favor later when getting the TMP gig if you made your pitch before that; in other words someone remembered "that artist with the original Trek thingee" and got a hold of you. ;) Steve That is interesting to know Daren. On their old Website Digital Stream claimed they made some kind of pitch to someone in charge at Paramount. If they didn’t, then Paramount really missed the boat in rejecting your work, but it probably worked in your favor later when getting the TMP gig if you made your pitch before that; in other words someone remembered “that artist with the original Trek thingee” and got a hold of you. ;)

Steve

]]> by: DarenDoc http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-117 Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:37:16 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-117 By the way... Digital Stream never did pitch their idea to the studio... My pitch was the only one presented to the studio... but I did pitch it twice... once with the compilation reel, and once with the Doomsday Machine. Just clearing things up. lol By the way… Digital Stream never did pitch their idea to the studio… My pitch was the only one presented to the studio… but I did pitch it twice… once with the compilation reel, and once with the Doomsday Machine.

Just clearing things up. lol

]]> by: picardsucks http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-116 Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:12:10 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-116 Damn straight. I got heat at Trekmovie cause I dared to suggest that while i loved the effects in the episode and praised the improvements since the inception of the whole remastering thing I would like to see what Daren had to say and that i would like to see him get a shot at a couple of these episodes. Hell I'd love to see ILM do some footage too and the folks that do Galactic's FX. How radical, I'm a regular Abbie Hoffman. Many of my brother Trekkies act so jingoistic about this thing. It's like they are afraid Paramount is going to come in and take this away from us. Yes I'm happy with it and yes there are things I would like to see tweeked and improved, nothing major just a little tweek here and there. Also I think we deserve it to be done right when the eventuality comes to shell out money for the re-re-remastered dvd collection. hell most of us have shelled out big bucks to purchase the video collection then all thirtysomething of the dvd collection. Damn straight. I got heat at Trekmovie cause I dared to suggest that while i loved the effects in the episode and praised the improvements since the inception of the whole remastering thing I would like to see what Daren had to say and that i would like to see him get a shot at a couple of these episodes. Hell I’d love to see ILM do some footage too and the folks that do Galactic’s FX. How radical, I’m a regular Abbie Hoffman. Many of my brother Trekkies act so jingoistic about this thing. It’s like they are afraid Paramount is going to come in and take this away from us. Yes I’m happy with it and yes there are things I would like to see tweeked and improved, nothing major just a little tweek here and there. Also I think we deserve it to be done right when the eventuality comes to shell out money for the re-re-remastered dvd collection. hell most of us have shelled out big bucks to purchase the video collection then all thirtysomething of the dvd collection.

]]> by: DarenDoc http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-115 Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:00:03 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-115 I fully agree that if I were in charge, there would be just as much, if not more, nitpicking. And I'm fully open to it... as I have been from the start of me putting my work up for people to see. I take all constructive criticism cheerfully, and if I find it reasoned and sound, I take it. I am constantly re-thinking and revising my work... which might be considered a luxury in some cases... and I agree that I am not under a time constraint right now... but I was when I was readying the proposal I did have a self imposed deadline of completing the first quarter of the episode in 3 weeks. This included totally rebuilding the model from the early proposal (seen in the first attempt movie) and creating the constellation model and rigging. This was done all by myself. :) I think it would be a bit of a luxury to have 20 staff people around to do the work... and just have the responsibility of approving shots. :) I really want to be upbeat about this... cause I think the project is a good idea. It's just getting harder and harder to be positive when things I see as easy corrections remain untouched. LL&P Daren I fully agree that if I were in charge, there would be just as much, if not more, nitpicking. And I’m fully open to it… as I have been from the start of me putting my work up for people to see. I take all constructive criticism cheerfully, and if I find it reasoned and sound, I take it. I am constantly re-thinking and revising my work… which might be considered a luxury in some cases… and I agree that I am not under a time constraint right now… but I was when I was readying the proposal I did have a self imposed deadline of completing the first quarter of the episode in 3 weeks. This included totally rebuilding the model from the early proposal (seen in the first attempt movie) and creating the constellation model and rigging. This was done all by myself. :) I think it would be a bit of a luxury to have 20 staff people around to do the work… and just have the responsibility of approving shots. :)

I really want to be upbeat about this… cause I think the project is a good idea. It’s just getting harder and harder to be positive when things I see as easy corrections remain untouched.

LL&P
Daren

]]> by: spsmyth http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-114 Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:26:33 +0000 http://betafive.com/wordpress/?p=52#comment-114 I agree TrekMaster. I am 46, and remember when my dad turned on "The Mantrap" in 1966, so I REALLY know how Trek fans are :) ! I have a few friends who think ANY remastering of TOS beyond a cleanup is out of sight. Yes, Daren has had time to develop his Enterprise model. That is only because he had this idea at the wrong time. I believe he did his presentation for Paramount several years after Digital Stream did theirs. I think that particular "regime" was shortsighted and did not see the value in TOS. Now that I am learning 3D graphics, let me say that all of Daren's criticisms are constructive. The stated goal at CBS digital was to get as close to the look and feel of TOS as possible but to bring it up to date; without the proper virtual lighting and lenses, they fall short. Also, CBS isn't using anything better than Daren. They use Maya, Daren uses Lightwave. Both are capable of outputting broadcast quality work. Let me just say this. If Daren was in charge, (no offense to Mike Okuda and Dave Rossi) had the same access to the original TOS miniature that he did with the refit Enterprise miniature for TMP, I don't think we would be having these conversations. I agree TrekMaster. I am 46, and remember when my dad turned on “The Mantrap” in 1966, so I REALLY know how Trek fans are :) ! I have a few friends who think ANY remastering of TOS beyond a cleanup is out of sight.

Yes, Daren has had time to develop his Enterprise model. That is only because he had this idea at the wrong time. I believe he did his presentation for Paramount several years after Digital Stream did theirs. I think that particular “regime” was shortsighted and did not see the value in TOS.

Now that I am learning 3D graphics, let me say that all of Daren’s criticisms are constructive. The stated goal at CBS digital was to get as close to the look and feel of TOS as possible but to bring it up to date; without the proper virtual lighting and lenses, they fall short. Also, CBS isn’t using anything better than Daren. They use Maya, Daren uses Lightwave. Both are capable of outputting broadcast quality work.

Let me just say this. If Daren was in charge, (no offense to Mike Okuda and Dave Rossi) had the same access to the original TOS miniature that he did with the refit Enterprise miniature for TMP, I don’t think we would be having these conversations.

]]>